Today on Streets.mn: Shoup-ian Parking Economics vs. the World of Costanzas

I had a late start today, but just finished my fortnightly post over at Streets.mn about parking lot economics. I've already written about the 6th Street sidewalk expansion debate in the context of historic preservation (and why I think the St Paul HPC got it wrong). Here's another stab at the argument, this time from the perspective of parking economics.

Basically, I finally coughed up the dough and bought Donald Shoup's thick book on parking. I'm really glad I did! It's terrific.

It really helps you understand the mysteries of parking, or as I put it, why we all "turn into Costanzas" when were trying to stop driving our car. I spend a lot of time explaining Shoup's main points, which aren't that complicated, but here's the punch of my piece:

Let’s return to the example of the parking spaces around Mears Park. What the original analysis gets wrong, showing that removing these meters will cost the city $55,000 each year, is that parking is a dynamic market. If you remove one parking spot, it doesn’t mean that money goes away. People will still be driving around, looking for somewhere to stop their car. If you take away one meter, the one next to it immediately becomes more valuable.

The issue in Lowertown, Saint Paul is that lots of people want to park on a very few places of land. The problem that comes from that is that many people spend a lot of highly frustrating time “cruising,” struggling in vain, attempting to find one of these precious patches of asphalt nirvana. That’s the key problem! We need to find a way a way liberate people this teeth-grinding white-knuckled automobile parking hell.

Shoup’s solution to this problem is to tweak prices so that the parking market equals out, to use pricing to equalize the supply and demand between the highly in-demand and the little-used parking psots in the city. (As a friend recently pointed out, downtown Saint Paul has lots of parking. Most of it is underused.) This might mean raising prices around Mears Park, and lowering them on the north side of West 7th Street. This might mean raising on-street prices in general, and lowering prices at the many parking ramps. Done right, there would always be a spot for the taking along Mears Park, and many of the (city-owned) underused parking ramps would be full.

While I'm not living and dying on whether or not this sidewalk expansion gets built, I do get irritated when people use faulty and misleading arguments to make their case. I think Americans are far too obsessed with parking. It's not something I can understand at all. Reading Shoup's book makes me realize that I'm not alone.

Notable Quotes #4: Donald Shoup describes Grand Avenue's Parking Meter Debate

[Mayor Coleman describing Shoup's work to an angry crowd.]

[From Chuck Marohn's latest Strong Towns Podcast, legendary parking guru and retired planning prof, Donald Shoup, talks quite a lot about Saint Paul's recent thwarted attempt to put parking meters on Grand Avenue.]

Saint Paul only got half of the message. Every city should charge the right price for curbed parking. Every city should charge the right price for curbed pricing, and by “right price”, I mean the lowest cost a city can charge and still leave one or two open spaces on every block, on both sides of the block, so wherever you go, you can see just what you want: an open space waiting for you. So nobody can say there’s a shortage of parking.

And the cities that have done this, like LA and San Francisco in their downtowns, more prices went down than up. Because we have to charge a different price at different times of the day. If you have the same price all day long, it’s often too high in the morning and too low in the afternoon.

Saint Paul wanted to put in parking meters partly because there’s a parking shortage. Is it Grand Avenue? I think they made a big mistake by saying ‘we’re doing it because the city needs the money.’ They actually counted the money in the next year’s budget!

Clearly they were taking money out of the neighborhood and spending it every place else. I don’t think that’s fair. What has been politically successful is that, if you went to Grand Avenue and said, “we’ll offer you these parking meters”, but all of the meter revenue will go to repair your sidewalks or plow snow or plant street trees or put in historic street lights, and street furniture or have added police protection or whatever is your #1 priority something you’d like to see done on Grand Avenue, but don’t have a way to pay for it, here’s a way to do it.

If you’d like to have the meters you’ll get all the money for it. If you don’t want the meters, you won’t get the improvements. And we’ll run the meters just as long as it’s necessary to manage parking. If the demand falls at 7PM, then the prices go down or it becomes free at 7PM. If the demand doesn’t increase until 10AM, then the price remains free until 10AM. So I think it’s, combined as a package of prices and public services, the merchants and the property owners would begin to see it in a different way. It’s totally different from saying, “we’re going to give you parking meters but we’re going to take all the money.”

It’s pretty elementary that the city made a mistake saying that “we want the money” and therefore we’re going to put in parking meters. Of course that’s going to be unpopular. But in cities that do offer meters and public services as a package, they’re very welcomed.

[.…]

Every city thinks it’s unique. I’m sure Saint Paul thinks its unique, different from Minneapolis, or Osceola or any other little town nearby. But I think most cities are very much alike when it comes to parking. If you have a parking problem, and there’s a shortage of parking on Main Street in a small city, that’s the same as the parking shortage on Grand Avenue in Saint Paul.

And you can do the same solution. It just means there won’t be nearly so many parking meters in the small city. And they won’t charge as high a price, but you have to manage parking.

Parking is kind of like successful socialism. There’s an enormous amount of very valuable land that the city owns, and it’s squandering the results. It’s really mismanaging, and I think the example you showed in Saint Paul is an example of this mismanagement. The transportation experts say that parking meters would prevent employees from parking all day long in front of their restaurants, and prevent complaining about that there’s no parking for customers. And it would provide a lot of revenue for things that the neighborhood wants, even to build an off-street parking structure, if that’s their first priority. But it rarely is, because parking is so expensive. They’d probably rather have clean sidewalks, than a parking structure. I think when we get parking right, cities will right themselves.

[Check out the whole conversation.]

A Marxist Take on Market Pricing for Parking

[A little old parking meter in Pasadena.]

I'm just finishing up Four Futures, a short and sweet book that ponders social choices for "life after capitalism" using a science fiction lens. The author, Peter Frase, was at Boneshaker Books about a year ago and I got to hear him speak about it. He's an editor at Jacobin magazine, and one of the people at the center of a new wave of socialist and radical activism in the US.

Anyway, I was surprised and delighted to come across this example in his discussion of socialism, one of the "four futures" that might emerge from our current political and economic present. Warning: As is the case with most Marxist texts, it's long and complicated.

Here it is:

But if we posit a world in which everyone is allocated the same basic income and nobody has control over vast pools of wealth, this objection disappears. Think of the basic income as the ration card that gives you access to your share of all that is scarce in the world. Rather than allocate specific amounts of each scarce resource, the pricing mechanism of the market is used to protect against overuse.

To illustrate what this means, consider a mundane example: parking. In American cities, street parking has traditionally been free in most areas or available at a small fixed price. This is a dramatic under-pricing, in the sense that it leads people to over-consume the limited resource of parking spaces, leading to a shortage of free spaces and many cars cruising around looking for spaces. In some areas of New York, most of the traffic on the streets is people looking for parking, wasting their time while creating pollution and congestion.

As an alternative, some cities are experimenting with various schemes for pricing street parking, often under the influence of UCLA parking theorist Donald Shoup. One of Shoup's key themes is that urban governments should avoid under-pricing street parking, because to do so leads to Soviet-style shortages as described above, along with tedious rationing rules such as two-hour limits and the like.

Under the influence of this theory, the city of Los Angeles decided to implement a wireless smart-metering system called LA Express Park. Sensors are installed in the pavement below each space, and they detect the presence of cars in a given area. The computerized system then automatically adjusts the price of parking depending on how many spaces are filled. When spaces are in high demand, the price can rise as high as $6 per hour, and when many spaces are available they can be as cheap as 50 cents.

The LA Express Park scheme has been widely discussed and promoted as applying the "free market" to parking. This naturally grates on those of the Left who equate the market with capitalism and with inequality. But in this case talk of "markets" is more than just an ideological subterfuge to further enrich the powerful; it gives some hints at the potential of markets as limited technologies separable from capitalism.

Marxists have commonly made two objections to capitalist markets. The first is narrowly economic: under the "anarchy" of capitalist competition, the pursuit of private profit leads to unjust and irrational results. Luxury goods are produced while the poor starve, inventories pile up that no one can afford to buy, factories lie idle while thousands are looking for work, the environment is despoiled, and so on. In Leon Trotsky's Transitional Program, in which he laid out a short term reformist program for his communist followers, there are repeated references to this kind of market anarchy, which will inevitably be superseded by a superior form of rational, conscious, worker-controlled planning. Indeed, says Trotsky, "the necessity of 'controlling' economy, of placing state 'guidance' over industry and of 'planning' is today recognized -- at least in words -- by almost all current bourgeois tendencies, from fascist to Social Democratic."

Yet Trotsky himself was adamant that market mechanisms had to be part of planning the economy. In his 1932 critique The Soviet Economy in Danger, he writes:

The innumerable living participants int he economy, state and private, collective and individual, must serve notice of their needs and of their relative strength not only through the statistical determinations of plan commissions but by the direct pressure of supply and demand. The plan is checked and, to a considerable degree, realized through the market.

Seen from this perspective, the Los Angeles system is not a capitalist "free market" deregulation. The city is not turning parking over to private companies to compete for customers. The LA Express Park experiment is in fact an exemplary case of central planning. The city begins by decreeing a production target, which in this case is maintaining one empty parking space on each street. The complex system of sensors and pricing algorithms is then used to create price signals that will meet the target. In a fundamental way, the capitalist market's causal arrow has been reversed: rather than market price fluctuations leading to an unpredictable level of production, it is the production target that comes first, and the prices are dictated by the quota.

There is another argument against markets. That they are not merely anarchic and inefficient, but also induce ideological mystifications that perpetuate capitalism and exploitation. The Marxist political scientist Bertell Ollman has often argued this. "a major virtue of centrally planned societies," he said, is that " it is easy to see who is responsible for what goes wrong." this is a precondition for democratic accountability, because "only a critique of market mystification will enable us to put the blame where it belongs, which is to say -- on the capitalist market as such and the class that rules over it."

But this critique too fails. Despite the presence of price signals, and a market, it is no mystery who is responsible for the new regime of fluctuating meter prices: the city of Los Angeles, urged on by its adviser Donald Shoup. Indeed, it is the very visibility of the planners that makes projects like this controversial among those who take their right to free parking for granted and who oppose policies like congestion pricing that would mitigate traffic by charging drivers for entering busy areas. This is also part of what makes climate policies such as a carbon tax vulnerable to right-wing attack: whatever its "market-based" costume, everyone knows that the policy begins with government lawmakers and bureaucrats.

The real failing of LA Express Park and all systems like it is that they exist within a dramatically unequal capitalist society. In such a society, $6 for a parking space means less to a rich person than to a poor one, and so the system is inherently unequal. The answer is not to attack the system of market planning, but to overthrow that underlying inequality. Ultimately, this means overcoming the capitalist system of resource distribution and approaching a world in which control of wealth is equalized -- that is, where "the distribution of the means of payment" (to use Gorz's phrase cited in Chapter 2) is essential equal.

Given how market-based pricing is often viewed as an attack on the working class, this is an intriguing take that offers a much more nuanced view of urban policy than most analyses. 

density&diversity: Hidden Cost of Parking

The U recently hosted this guy, Donald Shoup, the expert on how the business community is forced into subsidizing auto transport by adding parking for every new building. Parking has been a big issue with many of the developments throughout the TC. For example, the Grand & Victoria commerical strip has a parking lot in the back, and when Best Buy's new store EqLife wanted to move in, they needed to get a parking requirement exemption.

Shoup's arguement is that these sorts of requirements only encourage people to drive more, and are one more way in which our society subsidizes auto transit. He argues that cities should eliminate off-street parking requirements, and suggests that businesses ought to use parking revenues to improve streetscapes and sidewalks.

The only thing I know is that the multi-story parking lot inside the new condo at 26th and Nicollet is really ugly. Whenever I see a beautiful building filled with cars, I want to throw a brick through a window.

Reading the Highland Villager #88

[A Villager waits for a table.]

[Basically the problem is that the best source of Saint Paul streets & sidewalks news is the Highland Villager, a very fine and historical newspaper. This wouldn't be a problem, except that its not available online. You basically have to live in or frequent Saint Paul to read it. That's why I'm reading the Highland Villager so that you don't have to. Until this newspaper goes online, sidewalk information must be set free.]


Headline: State takes over St. Paul health inspections; City employees accused of making 'critical' mistakes
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version:  The city hasn't been inspecting restaurants or grocery stores very well or often. After many threats, the state Departments of Agriculture and Health has started doing it instead, pissing off folks down at City Hall. 15 "inspectors" could lose their jobs. Nouns mentioned include: rodent droppings, "serious errors," backlogs, "hostile takeover."


Headline: New formula levels field for district councils; City revises funding to reflect population of its 17 districts
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: 10 years ago, the city approved a "revised funding formula" to account for shifts in population across the city, mainly shifting money from neighborhoods losing population to neighborhoods with stable populations. It was never implemented [presumably because it's politically unpopular]. The shift had been postponed a few years ago. Losers include: Summit-University, Lex-Ham, Ramsey Hill, Downtown. Winners: two on the East Side, Highland Park, West 7th, Mac-Groveland.

Headline: Redevelopment would transform Snelling-Selby ["Transform" might be a bit of an exagguration?]
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A surface parking lot and an old one-story commercial building are to become a large mixed-use development. The Getten Credit building [long one of my favorite perhaps inadvertent pun names] is the first to go. Neighbors are worried about traffic. They'd like money for a study. [A study would be useless unless it had a definitive plan for Ayd Mill Road.] There will be a grocery store! [I'm going to guess a Lund's? Also, for some reason the article includes picture of someone riding a bike on the small sidewalk in front of the Snelling Starbucks.]


Headline: Plan targets Snelling-Selby parking crunch; Shared parking lots, new parking meters and permit parking are all in the offing
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: Neighbors and business people listened to the city talk about how to make sure people can park their cars at Snelling and Selby. One plan is to build a shared commercial lot. Also, the city is interested in looking at a parking improvement district. [Shoup 101, something I wanted to see in Lowertown, too!] Money from meter revenue would go to pay for "free customer parking lots." [Well, that's sort of the idea, except that parking revenue in theory doesn't go to pay for free parking elsewhere. That seems paradoxical somehow? People paying more to park to subsidize free parking in the same corner? Not sure that supply-demand thing is gonna work.] Some residents don't like parking meters. One business owner "questioned whether customers would be willing to walk a block or more." [If they're not, there's something deeply wrong with Saint Paul.] Article includes choice quote: "Everyone knows where free parking is. It's kind of amazing."


Headline: Commission launches 'fish and fowl' zoning study; City to address growing public interest in raising, processing their own food
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: Saint Paul people desiring to farm and/or butcher fish or fowl may be able to do so in the future [anything without hooves, really. Apparently this group includes hippie organic folks and hmong].


Headline: Local historic status sought to save crumbling Island Station
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: The City Council had a public hearing about whether to grant historic designation for the old [almost always obsolete] abandoned power plant in the river valley. The property owner wants to demolish it, and cited a long list of vandalism-type activity as one reason. Local architecture and preservationist types want to keep it, and have dreams for what it might become. The National Park Service had once offered to buy it, but for a paltry sum. [Update: the City Council decided yesterday not to grant historic designation, and now a property owner will be able to demolish it if they want. And they will want.]


Headline: Beacon group assembles financing for new shelter for homeless youth
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A group is going to build a 44-unit building for homeless youth at University and Prior.


Headline: Khaliq sworn in as Ward 1's rep
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: That's Nathaniel Kaliq.


Headline: Neighbors raise a stink over opening of new Wild Wings
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: The new Buffalo Wild Wings smells like fried food, surprising neighbors. Best quote: "The smell was absolutely horrendous... it was a heavy, greasy smell." Also: "I laid down to sleep and the sheets on the bed smelled like grease." Article includes possible solutions, a vent and/or a closed-loop system. There is some debate about an existing curb cut. BWW promised to get rid of it, but MNDOT says they need to keep it because of [traffic traffic Snelling traffic blah blah].


Headline: Blue Ox envisions 36-hole minigolf course at old Schmidt Brewery site; But West 7th Federation questions whether 18 holes might be enough
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [Here it is, ladies and gentlemen, your new "death match" super-heated local Saint Paul issue!] The mini-golf developer wants to build a 36-hole course because it would be "more profitable." Neighborhood group president says it would be problematic, because they need some of the potential golf space for 50 parking spaces. [Look, I like mini-golf way more than the next guy, but 36 holes is a lot of holes. Hell, Big Stone only has 13... But wait, I have another idea. Maybe we combine them. Mini-golf holes SLASH parking lot. People park their cars to create obstacles, parking on the greens. Holes are located in between SUVs filled with kids. No Wait! Beer patio SLASH parking lot SLASH mini-golf course SLASH Como Zoo extension, so you have a drink in one hand, a putter in the other, and are chasing a monkey who has your golf ball through a pissed-off bumper car course of Costanzas... Just a thought.]


Headline: Expenses outpacing revenues by close to $1M at city's golf courses
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: Saint Paul's golf courses continue to lose money. [Why can't we privatizes crap like this?, or find something else to do with the space? E.g. cross country skiing in the wintertime! Yay! Maybe use one of the courses for mountain biking or, you know, something that's actually popular and stuff. Frolf. Lacrosse. Lawn darts. 36-hole mini-golf courses.]


Headline: Council sets building height limits on west end of Grand
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: The city passed the proposed zoning changes [see here] on Grand Avenue by Saint Thomas.


Headline: Wild Onion is finally allowed to serve liquor on its patio
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [At long last, dreams can come true!]  There are 11 "conditions." [For example, patio-goers must keep their their collars flipped up at all times.]

Headline: Council fines pedal pub for operating without a license
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [Look out, Saint Paul. There's a rogue pedal pub out there! Nobody is safe.] A pedal pub company with the [horrible] name "Three Buckaroos" did not have the appropriate license, approvals, or signage. Also, apparently this company was letting people drink whiskey, which is verboten.


Headline: Armadillo band will have fest jumpin'
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [I'm just gonna let your imagination run with that one.]

Rough Sketch of a Solution to Downtown Saint Paul's Parking Problem

Last night, there was a meeting at the Jerome Theater about parking in Lowertown, Saint Paul. I wasn't there, but (as always) dogged Pioneer Press reporter Frederic Melo attended.

He tweeted thus:

Parking is a big deal, for lots of reasons. It's something I've been thinking about more and more these days, and I'm not alone. Last night's meeting is not unusual in local city politics. Ask any elected official. Parking is near the top of what people complain about in everyday city life.

But accommodating parking comes at a high cost, in terms of both city budgets and urban fabric.

Here are the problems as I see them:

[Two Costanzas.]

Problem #1: Parking cars in downtown Saint Paul can be frustrating.  Last night's meeting is Exhibit A. (Meanwhile, others find it easy.) This problem will only get worse as more businesses, residences, and activities locate downtown. Picture driving around for 20 minutes looking for a spot, turning down one-way streets, cursing. Picture a city of Costanzas.


Problem #2: The city is already filled with expensive parking lots. The city and developers have already spent many millions on parking garages downtown. Historic buildings have been converted into parking garages. [Shudder.] There are lots of parking garages, and they're really expensive.

[One of downtown's many blank walls & unappealing sidewalks.]

Problem #3: Large parts of downtown are ugly and unappealing to pedestrians. Walk around and see this for yourself. While there are a few really nice parts of downtown Saint Paul, many streets are lined with windowless concrete walls. (Usually, these are off-street parking garages.) The sidewalks are covered with litter, especially this time of year. Once you leave Lowertown or Rice Park, there aren't enough businesses, people, or street activity to make walking in downtown Saint Paul very pleasant.

These problems are interlinked. Solving Problem #1 comes at the expense of Problems #2 and #3. It seems an impossible challenge.

[Leave Lowertown or Rice Park, and lots of downtown Saint Paul is ugly and empty.]

Here's a rough sketch of a solution. Almost all of this is based on the work of the economist and planner Donald Shoup, the expert on US parking policy.

 
Step #1: Do a parking survey. Count the number of on- and off-street spots downtown. Also, get a rough measure of how "used" each spot is. What is its average occupancy throughout the day and week?

You'll probably find (as the city repeatedly says) that there are lots of parking spots downtown. You'll probably also find that a some of these spots are in very high demand. Most of these will be on-street surrounding prime attractions (e.g. the Farmer's market). On other hand, you'll probably also find that many spots have low demand, and sit empty much of the time. Most of these will be off-street garages, or in marginal locations.

 
Step #2: Set prices according to demand. Make the prime spots expensive and the distant spots cheap. This will ruffle a few feathers, but making prime spots expensive will encourage people to "turn over" the spots more quickly. Parking at in-demand locations will become easier but more expensive. This would eliminate "cruising" for parking, and end Costanza frustration. It's pretty straightforward: those who value convenience pay more, those who want to save money walk farther out of their way. The important thing is that all the parking gets used. We get full return on the investments that the city and developers have made over the years.

[You could hire way more people like this guy.]

Step #3: Take the added revenues and create a downtown Business Improvement District (BID). During recent discussions of downtown's future, some folks in the city have said they'd like to see a BID. This parking plan would provide a funding stream with no added property or sales taxes on local businesses or residents. How we spend the money would be up to residents, businesses, and the downtown Chamber. Some possibilities: streetscape improvements, ambassadors / people to pick up the ubiquitous litter, nicer bus shelters, bike racks... I don't know! How the money would be spent should be up to the people that use the space. Give those 100 people in that room a pot of money to fix their problem. If they want to build a parking lot with it, more power to them.

 
Step #4: Repeat as necessary. This might involve several iterations, as the supply and demand of parking shifts over time and prices need to be adjusted. Ideally, you could make this process automatic using "smart" meters. (This is what they are doing in San Francisco.)


That's it!

[They're doing this in San Francisco. They made an app for it.]

There are three benefits of this plan.  First, parking becomes easy and transparent. We make an app for it. If you are looking for a spot on Mears Park, there will be one there for you. No more Costanzas. Never worry about it again. Second, it's far cheaper than any other solution out there. Parking ramps are very, very expensive, both in terms of dollars and in terms of opportunity costs. For every block of downtown Saint Paul that's a windowless parking garage, that's one block that won't have people in it, and that will be horrible to walk next to. This is way cheaper, and preserves the urban fabric. Third, it gives people some political control over their own destiny. What would those 100 people do with thousands of dollars per year to invest downtown? I don't know. I doubt they know either, but it'd be interesting to find out.

The bottom line is that parking in downtown Saint Paul should not be free after 4:30. Free parking might benefit a few lucky people, but causes lots of problems and frustration for many others. As long as parking is free on the street, nobody will use the thousands of spaces in the huge ugly garages we've spent millions to construct. People will waste countless miserable hours cruising the streets looking for the perfect spot in order to save $5 on their way to see the Wild, the Saints, Keillor, or whatever Scientologists do at night. Meanwhile, off-street garages will just sit there, underused. That's not a happy situation.

This solution is an outline. Details need to be added. But this would work. It'd be cheap, and in the long run, it would make some of the 100 people in that room yesterday happy. It would improve downtown Saint Paul as a place to work, live, and play. It would be a great stride toward making our downtown a "real city" once again.

Reading the Highland Villager #154

[Basically the problem is that the best source of Saint Paul streets & sidewalks news is the Highland Villager, a very fine and historical newspaper. This wouldn't be a problem, except that its not available online. You basically have to live in or frequent Saint Paul to read it. Until this newspaper goes online, sidewalk information must be set free. See also: Three Reasons Why I Re-Blog the Highland Villager.] 



Headline: Tours highlight ‘pinch points’ of building new Riverview line
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: There are plans to maybe build rail transit somewhere on or near West 7th Street. The Rail Authority is going to lead walking tours of some of the routes. A “preferred route and mode” will be chosen by the fall. [I recently joined the “technical advisory committee” for this project. You can see some of my early thoughts here, but it turns out there are a lot of interesting options for how to build rail along or on West 7th Street. Surprisingly, the plan that I suggested, at least parts of it, is on the table in some familiar form.] Neighbors are concerned about traffic and parking. Article quotes CM Noecker: “The loss of parking is obviously an issue in my ward, so not to identify the street as a pinch point is an omission.” [A lot can be done without taking away most of the on-street parking.] Crossing the river is still the biggest determining factor. [It’s the #1 issue, in my opinion. Other concerns are much more flexible, with more options and solutions.] The tours are May 11th and 19th.


Headline: Citizens sound off on Midway stadium plans; Neighbors grill city officials with questions about project
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: There was a meeting about the new soccer stadium and surrounding development at Snelling and University. Neighbors were concerned about traffic, parking, noise, and taxes. Article quotes CM Prince: “This is a project that deserves much more public process.” Article describes a moment in the meeting: “When asked for a show of hands, more than half of the audience indicated that they are worried about parking.” [The “show of hands” thing is a terrible way to run a meeting, by the way, as it divides people into black-and-white categories when in reality there is almost always a great deal of grey area and middle ground.] In theory, the new development will have 4,500 parking spaces. [Also there’s a  brand new train and a soon-to-open bus rapid transit that go right to this corner. They're both kind of a big deal.] City staff is aware that people are concerned about parking.


Headline: District revises $15M plan to expand Linwood-Monroe
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: An arts school was going to expand but neighbors were concerned about “loss of green space” so some small changes have been suggested by an architect. There are “dueling Facebook groups.” One neighbor likes being able to “use” the green space around the school. [To walk his dog because he doesn’t have a yard of his own?] Neighbors are concerned about “long shadows.” The school desperately needs renovations and expansion. [Um, this is pretty ridiculous. The #1 priority should be a good school for the children that attend the school, with quality spaces for the children in the school. The property is for the school and its kids, not for neighbors to feel better because they can see some grass out their windows or something.]


Headline: Area around St. Thomas at top of list as city reviews permit parking issues
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: The city is studying changing and tweaking its permit parking system. [This is a good idea. I’d like to see some quantification of use for permit areas, the fee raised (it hasn’t gone up since the 80s, I believe) and perhaps some sort of “target” set for occupancy – say 50% – and then permits “sold” to people for a much higher price if they so choose.] Neighbors are concerned about parking. A public works staffer called the current system “archaic.” [Strong words for an engineer!] There are 26 permit parking areas in St. Paul. Even when students have garages, they don’t use them. And other students with their cars are parking illegally. [Ticket them until they cry!] The permit thing is a lot more complex than it appears. [Rely on some studies to solve this problem. I recommend Shoup’s work, obviously. The real solution though is to have more on-campus housing at St. Thomas and to restrict the access to cars for students, especially for first- and second-year students.]


Headline: East 46th Street bridge to be replaced
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [Yes, the Villager technically covers small parts of Minneapolis. Did you know that in Minneapolis they build bike lanes without riots in the streets? It's true. I know people that live over there and I talk to them on a regular basis. In fact, few people seem to complain about the bike lanes. The debates they have over there, which did I mention is in the Villager coverage area technically speaking, is whether their bike lanes should have planted boulevard medians or whether they should just be really wide. Incidentally, Minneapolis is right across the river from Saint Paul located within the Villager coverage area.]


Headline: Permit denied for Summit Hill triplex
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A couple who bought a building that had been a triplex now have to have it be a duplex because that’s how it’s zoned and it hasn’t been a triplex for ten years straight. The fire marshal was involved.


Headline: HRA OKs bonds for Model Cities site
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A one-story brownstone project on University Avenue will become a four-story mixed-use building.


Headline: BZA OKs variances for Garden Theater
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: An old theater on West 7th Street will be allowed to be remodeled even though it doesn’t have its own large parking lot with 12 more spaces. [Classic minimum parking requirement v. historic preservation situation here. It’ll still take a lot of money though.]


Headline: Council denies early closing of skyway
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A building manager for a downtown building won’t be able to lock her skyway doors at 10:00 pm like she wants to because skyways in St. Paul are regulated and publicly owned. [Unlike Minneapolis! See Peter’s column on this, that features a photo from me!] There will be a group to study security in the skyways.


Headline: Leave roadway project markings alone [Note: this is the best headline in years! Very Britney.]
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: People should stop taking away the flags placed on the boulevards and streets that are designed to show people where gas mains and utilities are located. Apparently this is a problem somehow. Article quotes a “damage control supervisor”: “We don’t want anyone else to hit a line and cause an accident or explosion.” [Jeez, people.] Best line: “The flags are removed when the work is done and the paint fades with time.” [All things fade with time.]


Headline: RS Eden gains support for four-story Marshall Avenue apartment building
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: A neighborhood group voted to support plans to build a 4-story apartment buidling on Marshall. It will be supporting housing for low-income people. No mention of neighbors being concerned.


Headline: Work finally starts on building an updated McDonald’s in Highland [No wait, this is the best article in years]
Author: Jane McClure

Short short version: [Finally! I don’t know how Highland Village has survived this long without an updated McDonald’s.] Zoning changed from “commercial” to “traditional neighborhood” a while back. [In theory that means drive-thrus and curb cuts are discouraged, fencing is required, etc.] Article quotes franchise owner: “it’s going to be beautiful.” [I like the film Coming to America, don’t you?] The set-back will be much less, closer to West 7th Street. It will have two curb cuts, a “double drive-through”, and 40 parking spaces, which is 14 more than the parking maximum [yes, you read that correctly] set by the city. Quote from the article: “The argument for more parking was that the new restaurant is expected to have 50-80 customers per hour at peak times. Like other new McDonald’s, the redone Highland restaurant will have such amenities as Wi-Fi and television screens. That entices customers to linger longer and was also an argument for additional parking.” [McDonalds wi-fi lingering: I’m going to have to hang out there for an afternoon and live-blog it.]


Headline: Quaint Hi-Lo diner brings a taste of bygone era to E. Lake
Author: Loren Green

Short short version: [Again with the Minneapolis. Did you know that they have double the bicycle mode share in Minneapolis, which is right across the river from Saint Paul and technically part of the Villager coverage area? They do things like install bike racks, stripe bike lanes, and things like that. Apparently people like it, and also somehow, though I’m not sure how, businesses seem to survive.  Dunno, it’s a mystery to me too!]



Bonus: this fortnight's RTHV opera was Falstaff, which is apparently about "the thwarted comical efforts of a fat knight to seduce two married women to gain access to their husbands' wealth."

Reading the Highland Villager #76

[A Villager that stuck its tongue to the flagpole.]

[Basically the problem is that the best source of Saint Paul streets & sidewalks news is the Highland Villager, a very fine and historical newspaper. This wouldn't be a problem, except that its not available online. You basically have to live in or frequent Saint Paul to read it. That's why I'm reading the Highland Villager so that you don't have to. Until this newspaper goes online, sidewalk information must be set free.]


Headline: University merchants take stock of damages of light rail
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: Story on how business owners don't think that the supplemental EIS about the construction phase of the University Avenue light rail accurately captured their economic and psychological misery. The EIS reports that businesses losses ranged from 2 - 84 percent, averaging 30. [That range suggests why there are a few really pissed off people, and many who don't care all that much.] It includes the story of a man who had to close his used car lot and his car wash. [Isn't that the point? Our main commercial street and center of city's urban density shouldn't have used car lots on it. That's the point of this whole investment and rezoning.] Article includes story of a salon owner in tears. [OK, that does sounds sad.]

Headline: New Union Park initiative seeks justice for all; Students offered a chance to atone for bad behavior by sitting down with neighbors
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: Misbehaving college students [read "Tommies"] who get a misdemeanor can opt for a new "restorative justice" program, where they  [To my mind, this is the kind of solution that will actually solve neighbor problems around UST. This kind of program is a far better solution than banning or restricting students (good or bad) from living in certain areas, discriminating against young people, and raising their cost of living. Here, you're actually having people sit down with each other, and that almost always lowers tensions. -Ed.] The kids pick up trash or work for nonprofits in the area, and then meet the people who they disturbed or vandalized.

Headline: Love Doctor threatens to sue after council denies sign variance
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: The City Council voted to support the appeal of the variance for the sign on the wall of the building of the store that sells supposedly sexy predominantly red items on University Avenue next to the Turf Club. The owner of the shop is pissed, and threatening to sue. He claims that the presence of the light rail stop prevents people in cars from seeing his store, thus the need for a visible sign. [Look, he probably doesn't know that a full 35% of the Hiawatha LRT traffic is going to and from Augie's in downtown Minneapolis. That's why they put the Warehouse District stop where they did. The vast majority of adult industry shopping commuters prefer transit for some reason. -Ed.] Article includes this semi-amusing quote from the director of a local neighborhood group: "We value the Love Doctor as part of the mix of businesses along this stretch of the central corridor." Article also includes many references to the term, "visually cluttered." [It's hard for me to care much about this one, folks.]

Headline: City gets $1M to clean up Lowertown site
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: the State Department of Employment and Economic Development (DEED) gave the city a million dollars for [sharks with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads] cleaning up the site where the Saints stadium will soon be.

Headline: Snelling-Selby braces for change
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: Article about the new development at the corner of Snelling and Selby and how the loss of the surface parking lot, and its replacement with real urban density, will change everything. Article includes quote from a neighbor: "Gosh, parking is going to be crazy." Also, quote from Dan O'Gara: "We're obviously concerned about the loss of parking." Quote from Photographer's Guild guy: "We need parking wherever we can get it." Article continues with nine more paragraphs about parking.

Headline: Parking concerns aired over Ramsey Hill project
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: A developer on Marshall Avenue is trying to build a new 10-unit apartment building between St Paul College and the Cathedral. Neighbors are concerned about parking. [I really with I hadn't just read Donald Shoup's book. My brain hurts.] The building plan also has some issues with site coverage and setbacks. The local neighborhood group recommended approving all the variances except the one about parking.

Headline: St. Paul set to remove more ashes in battle against borer
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: Ash trees along Cleveland and Griggs will be cut down. [In order to save them? Makes sense to me!]

Headline: Minature gold course eyed for portion of old Schmidt Brewery
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: [Just in case you had lost hope in St Paul's development potential, thinking we'd be pigeon-holed as the capitol of light brite sculptures] There will be a 36-hole mini golf course as part of the Schmidt Brewery redevelopment. The holes will be "artistic." [I actually love mini golf, especially the Big Stone course out in Mound. They should make it a maxi-mini-golf course and use some of that old building, like hole #10 out in Mound (the sunflower spiral one) which is the best mini-golf hole in the world.]

Headline: Proposed 6th Street sidewalk expansion is laid over to Feb. 6
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: The City Council decided to vote on the [no brainer] sidewalk expansion next time, instead of this time. [The Heritage Preservation Commission (for some reason) decided that the sidewalk expansion didn't fit with building setbacks. This, despite the fact that the building isn't moving one micron from its current position, that the sidewalk space will be expanded directly abutting a park? I don't understand that at all.]

Headline: Request for front-yard garage is denied by the zoning board
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: A man who wants to build a garage in his front yard in the Summit Hill area won't get to.

Headline: Workshops to explore development scenarios in Mac-Grove
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: The Mac-Groveland neighborhood groups are working on updating their district plan and trying to figure out where and how development might take place along the area [which is under a development moratorium, at present]. Of particular concern are the corners of Snelling and St Clair, Grand and Cleveland, and Grand and Finn. [I imagine these workshops being debates over how much amber to pour on the area, in order to preserve it properly.]

Headline: 'B-Dubs' looks to spread its wings to Cheapo Discs spot on Snelling [Should I be amazed that Jane McClure knows that 'B-Dubs' refers to?]
Reporter: Jane McClure

Short short version: Buffalo Wild Wings wants to build on the old Cheapo Discs site on Snelling Avenue. The site plan doesn't need any approval, but their liquor license will.

Headline: Upgraded Howe Elementary scheduled to reopen this fall
Reporter: Kevin Driscoll

Short short version: The elementary school at 43rd and 38th in Minneapolis [!] was remodeled.

The Best of the Mayor's Forum on Parking Meters

[Saint Paulites gathering to protest racism parking meters.]

 [Note: I have left this semi-rough transcript largely unedited and uneditorialized. Though they completely fail to capture the angry intensity of the room, hopefully the words speak for themselves.]

Mayor Chris Coleman: Welcome. I'm happy to talk about issues around Grand Avenue and the future of parking meters on Grand, or the lack thereof.

[cheering and clapping]

Mayor: [making calm down gesture] This meeting can go until 8:30. We can have that...

[some cheers and jeers] 

With the opportunity for people to weigh in and have a conversation. I respect that people's emotions are high but the more you all scream, the less people will have a chance to talk and have an opportunity for people to talk, if that's OK. We're going to start with three presentations: from GABA, the Summit Hill Association (SHA), and a rep from Transit for Livable Communities (TLC). We want to hear from people with different perspectives on this issue, so what I'd like to do before without further ado, is turn it over to the representative from the Grand Avenue Business Association (GABA) for a presentation. Jon?

[clapping]

[People lined up to testify against fossil fuels parking meters.]

Jon Perrone, Executive Director of GABA: There's quite a few more people than I expected. As you all know, I'm not a great public speaker, so I'll apologize in the beginning.

This morning the members of GABA, SHA, their board of directors, and also residents of Summit Hill, met with Mayor Coleman and his staff to discuss the concerns raised regarding the proposed parking meters.

I wish I could say that this meeting went well, but it didn't. It was more of the same. They heard us but are not listening to to our concerns. It was the same excuses, with a few new ones added in. This is why we're having the problem with the city, now. City Hall has given us plenty of reasons, but none of them have ever checked out as to why meters are beneficial for businesses on Grand Avenue.

As soon as a business or resident starts using facts to support our opposition, their reasons change. When the meters were first proposed, it was stated that the meters were being done for the businesses, and that the businesses wanted them.

This was wrong. Once we started showing the data that 88% of businesses were recently polled opposed, they changed their reason.

The next reason stated was the at the meters were to help with turnover. This information came from a 2006 parking study.

Once we started to point out that the study was old, and that the facts of the study were inconclusive and that it was never determined by the members participating in the committee that the meters would help Grand Avenue, the reasons changed again.

[Shouts of "of course"]

Once it was turns to us [sic] from the City Council president Russ Starks [sic] was that the meters were to help with the budget. Now we believe this reason as its the only one that's been sticking.

[pause, fumbling with paper. big cheer from crowd]

The question we raise from this: Why are we taxing only one area of Saint Paul to make up for a city-wide budget problem?

[clapping, cheering]

The administration is spending money on pet projects like the Riverwalk or the renovation of the Palace Theater, or the soccer stadium that they'd like to get. We have a budget problem period.

Most recently the mayor said that this proposal would help fight greenhouse gases and pollution...

[loud groans, boos]

When this was mentioned, all of us started to laugh a little to be honest. But representing the businesses, we asked the mayor: How much do those jets you're flying on cost and pollute? Are the cars that are going to be removed from the Avenue going to make less of a difference than those trips you're taking to Germany, Japan, and France this year?

The only consistent reason for the parking meters is the 2016 budget. This is why the vote has to take place before the end of the year. This is why there's been no process. This is why we're all upset.

The $400K in net revenue that will come from the parking meters in 2016 is 1/7 of 100th of 1 percent of the overall [inaudible from clapping] and in my opinion is a cheap gimmick by Mayor Coleman and city leaders to help fix a much larger problem.

This issue has not only united the Summit Hill Association and its residents, the GABA and its members, it has also united several other business associations. [lists a few] All of them have come out in opposition because they fear they will be next.

[some more more about petitions, loud clapping]

On behalf of the GABA, its board, our businesses, and the community, I am asking the mayor, city staff, and City Council Members not to install meters on Grand. It is sending a very loud and clear message to the citizens and the city that they as elected officials think government knows best, and does not need to listen to the majority. It's also sending a loud and clear message to all the other neighborhoods who may be affected by the projects they're working on, such as the soccer stadium, that government officials do not listen. GABA is keeping all its options open as to stop the installation of the meters on grand avenue.

One more thing; today the city has been wasting taxpayer dollars today emailing people to get them out here to speak pro-meter.

[laughter]

I would like to point out one thing. We didn't need to do that.

[calls for shows of hands, etc. lynch mob vibe.]

Mayor: Now we'll hear from Mark, rep of SHA

Mark from Summit Hill Association (SHA): I'm here to speak on behalf of SHA and its members which include all the residents of Summit hill which are renters and home owners, prop owners, and business owners. I'm here on behalf of SHA not for myself.

When SHA learned about that the parking meter pilot project was going to be Grand Ave and only Grand Avenue, we decided we needed to take the temperature on this issue. So we held a meeting on Sept. 29th and had a turnout of 140 people, which pales by comparison to tonight, but we thought it was a good turnout.

The mood in the room was similar to tonight overwhelming opposition to meters. We did allow about 20 people to get up to speak, and they were unanimous in opposition. That's not to say the room did not have people in favor.

We received emails and people left comment cards, and the percentages were 82% opposed and 18% in favor, which exceeds Mayor Coleman's percentage int he last election, which was a landslide.

Afterward, we met as a board to decide what our response would be, so we took a vote and sent a letter to the Mayor and City Council to express overwhelming opposition to the parking meter proposal and frustration with the lack of transparency with the process.

On that issue, district councils have been around for 40 years, and the purpose of the district councils is to allow citizen participation in helping to shape Saint Paul  neighborhoods. The city and district councils are supposed to work in collaboration as partners. For example, if a business or homeowner wants a variance, they come to the SHA first and we take a vote, and forward that to the city.

That should have been the process here, where as a district council we take a vote. And that didn't happen and it was frustrating for us. We felt we should have been included but were excluded.

[clapping]

And assuming no representation by our elected officials. As long we're on the issue of transparency in the spirit of full disclosure, if someone were to ask me, I'd probably raise my hand and say, "ah, parking meters might not be such a bad thing."

[silence]

I'm not here to speak for myself, I'm here to speak for the SHA, and on behalf of the SHA we're against parking meters and overwhelmingly against them, and we want our elected officials to hear that. Thank you.

[clapping]

Mayor Coleman: Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Next we're going to hear from Barb Thoman from Transit for Livable Communities. I know that most of you don't agree with her position, but in the Saint Paul tradition, I would hope you listen to her with the same respect as you listened to the first two speakers, and give her a chance to explain some of the thinking behind it. Then I'm going to have a chance to say a few words. Then we'll open it up for conversation.

[Barb Thoman before a crowd of anti-poverty anti-parking meter advocates.]

Barb Thoman, former director of Transit for Livable Communities (TLC): Good evening. I guess I'm a brave soul, as a lot of you out there... I am the former Executive Director of Transit for Liveable Communities, and I'm also the author of a report entitled "the myth of free parking."

Like many of you I'm also a longtime resident of St Paul, and someone who shops and dines on Grand Avenue fairly often. I'm not here to defend the city's process for the pilot project, but I want to talk about the merits of paid parking, of metered parking.

In the last decade, there's been a great deal of study about the topic of metered parking, and the impacts of not charging for parking on communities. If you go to the website of the Transportation Research Board, or the American Planning Association, you will find dozens, if not hundreds of articles, about parking and its impacts on community. There's even a popular book by an author named Donald Shoup called "The High Cost of Free Parking."

And that's the topic that I'd like to address first. The curb parking along Grand Avenue, which is provided to drivers free of charge, isn't free. It's subsidized. The city incurs costs to build and repair that parking lane, to provide winter maintenance, to maintain the signage, and to enforce the parking requirements.

[loud shouts and murmurs from crowd. no no no, etc.]

Just a minute. I'd like to have my time. The vast majority of these costs are paid for with property taxes and the city's right of way assessment.

[clapping]

I just got my bill for $230 for next year for my right of way assessment. Neither of these revenue sources have anything to do with how much people drive, or how much they use on-street parking. So people who drive less, and car-pool, bike, and bus more often, pay the exact same amount as people who drive more and use on-street parking more frequently. That isn't fair.

[loud groans and boos]

There are also indirect costs of driving and parking. Vehicles cause traffic congestion, noise and air pollution. In the case of Grand Avenue, motorists access Grand Avenue using many of our collector streets -- Cretin, Cleveland, Lexington, and Dale -- and contribute to traffic and noise in many neighborhoods including mine. I live 3 houses off of Cretin, and 27,000 cars a day pass very close to my house.

[derisive laughter, murmurs]

Installing parking meters on Grand Avenue and other commercial corridors will help level the playing field and contribute directly to the costs of parking. Alternatives like taking the bus and biking, or sharing a ride with family and friends, will be more competitive options. Today with subsidized parking and bus fare at $2 round trip, there is an incentive to drive in our city. Grand Avenue has really good bus service with the 63 bus, and in our city we have good North-South connecting service on Dale and Cleveland and some service on Lexington. Starting in 2016, Snelling will be served with the best bus in the region.

People who can't get to Grand Avenue on bus or transit are going to pay for it. Grand Avenue has statewide appeal, similar to other commercial corridors in the region, and in other states where people pay to park: Uptown Minneapolis, Lake Street or Riverside Avenue in Minneapolis, Michigan Avenue in Chicago...

[loud gasps, boos, derisive laughter, more boos]

Most noteworthy are the number of places in California where a percentage of parking meter revenue is returned to the Commercial Corridor. In those cases, money is used to promote the district, plant trees, install sidewalks, install bike parking, and cover those costs that are priorities of the businesses. That concept is called a parking benefit district, and is something I believe should be considered if this proposed Grand Avenue pilot is considered. Thank you.

[People spending their evening fighting for affordable health care free parking.]

Mayor Coleman: Thank you. I appreciate everybody giving a chance to hear from her perspective. We have other city officials here, if there are are questions I can't answer. The fact of the matter is we've had many opportunities lot of emails and calls on this issue. I understand the concern. Let me just tell you a little bit about the process that led to this proposal.

First off, there have been no less than 8 studies since 1985 that have studies the issue of parking on Grand Avenue. In 2006, a study was conducted that identified some options and goals associated with managing traffic on Grand Avenue.

A couple things that were noted. Almost 70% of businesses identified parking on grand ave and the crowded parking on grand as specific problem. second, it was stated as a goal that one of the things that people wanted to see, was an increased use of alternatives to cars to go to Grand Avenue, to take buses, to bike, to walk, whatever it might be.

There was a stated desire to have people find alternative means to get to Grand Avenue. So if you were in a neighborhood where you were close enough to walk, you would choose that, as opposed to driving your car up there and parking on the street. Or if you had a opportunity to take the bus up, you would choose that route as opposed to driving there as well.

The third goal, I'm sure there were others, but this is the one that stuck out in my mind. And this has been a goal since I was a City Council member representing the Avenue, is to try to get employees of businesses to park further away so that those parking spots on Grand Avenue were freed up for customers. Very specifically, it was identified as a major problem that people would park on grand avenue work at a business all day long taking away a valuable spot for a customer, reducing the opportunity for people to come in and patronize businesses.

[loud murmurs from the crowd]

So one of the specific things ... [tries to quiet crowd] I'd like to have the opportunity to tell you why we got to this decision....

[more loud murmurs]

In spite of eight studies, in spite of all the people that have looked at this problem, no one has been willing to advance a specific way to deal with the challenges that we saw on Grand Avenue.

It's unfortunate that the Director said that people were laughing at the environmental impact of parking and the use of free parking, because the fact of the matter, and the very scientific evidence, is that there is a very direct and very dramatic cost of having people circling the block looking for a free parking space over and over and over again.

[groans, loud boos]

Barb referenced Donald Shoup's book, and you don't have to believe me on this...

[crowd boos]

This is an opportunity for people to take a look, and look at some of the reports that have been made. In 1935 the first parking meters were installed in Oklahoma City. When meters were installed, the businesses that benefited from that were looked at with envy, and surrounding businesses said, "we want parking meters."

That was the beginning of parking meters in this country and you go across the county and go to various cities of all shapes and size. I don't know if you didn't like Chicago, or Michigan Avenue... [referencing the mocking of Barb Thoman's earlier example.]

The fact of the matter is it doesn't have be a city the size of Chicago. It can be cities large and small, urban and rural, across the country in every way, shape, and form. The fact of the matter is parking meters have been looked as a way to solve a parking problem. They have been specifically identified

Take the example of Vail, which you can argue is different. Obviously its a unique town. Vail had a major parking problem, and so the city responded by building an expensive parking ramp.

[Lady next to me who has definitely gotten pissed off parking her car in Vail before, shouts loudly "It costs twenty bucks to park there!"]

It cost $1.25 a day to parking in the parking ramp in Vail, but no one was using it. And the reason no one was using it was that people would circle around and look for a free parking spot. So instead of paying $1.25 to park all day in Vail, they chose to continue to circle the block.

[loud boos]

The fact of the matter... it is true... but the fact of the matter is that when they started putting in parking meters their parking challenges were dramatically reduced. Their traffic problems were reduced.  I want people to understand that I'm not doing this simply, just to have a way of somehow making money...

[loud boos, derisive jeering]

There are better ways to do that if I wanted to. Specifically this proposal was advanced this year because of the developments downtown. There was a parking study conducted in Downtown. I'm not comparing downtown to Grand Avenue, but that was the conversation. One of things the study identified was that there were plenty of parking spaces but people weren't using them very efficiently.

Particularly, people that were parking for an extended period of time that should have been using the parking ramps downtown, were parking on the street, and as result of that, poorly managing traffic. The consequences of that was two-fold: one of them was, How do we deal with parking in downtown better and what are the budgetary implications of that?

I know people are upset that we're putting this into the general fund, and we can have a conversation about that. But the fact of the matter is I know that all of you, particularly if you live in Crocus Hill, have concerns about the rising costs of property taxes.

[some sporadic clapping]

I tried to be as cautious as I could to try to keep the property tax levy as low as I could. And to do it in such a way to have opportunities to collect money from people that are using city services in the city of Saint Paul, but that didn't necessarily have a stake in the game, as it were, because they weren't property tax payers.

Because we looked at every opportunity and everything we could, we were able to keep the property tax levy below 2% this year, which was a real challenge to do while continuing to maintain the quality of services we have -- parks, police, fire, and whatever -- it continues to be a challenge, and we continue to be pressed on it. We're continuing to look for different ways, so that we can not put all the burden of the challenges we have in our city on home owners and business owners in the form of property taxes.

So the conversation came up as we extended the conversation about parking ramps in downtown, someone mentioned the fact that there have been numerous studies about parking on Grand Avenue, and one the things we should look at is what would happen if we extended the parking district from downtown.

Now. other communities have begged for parking meters...

[groans, shouts]

I'm not sensing that you're begging for parking meters on Grand, but the fact of the matter is that other businesses that have had problems with traffic and problems with parking have asked for it and it has been successfully implemented. Parking meter strategies that have made a huge difference.

One of the things we hear is that installing parking meters would reduce the number of parking spots on Grand Avenue. If you put meters in, and define a spot, the loss will be minimal.

[groans, shouts]

I feel like I'm in a Republican debate. I'm just giving the evidence...

[shouts, boos]

The fact of the matter is, if you have a spot instead of turning over once or twice a day, it turns over four, five, or six times, that's four or five or six spots available because people aren't going in and parking their car and hanging out all day.

[Scattered shouts about time limits]

Some of them are two hours, some are 15 minutes... There's a whole patchwork quilt of how long you can park on the Avenue at different times. The fact of the matter is that enforcement alone, when I talk to people, they say, "I can't believe I got a parking ticket, I parked for 5 extra minutes."

Well, one of the things we can try coming out of this meeting, I will ask the police chief to enforce to the letter of the law parking on grand avenue, but..

[Cheers, though that last sentence seemed rather like a threat to me.]

As part of this conversation, we'll look at that whether its having the same effect as people circling the block constantly. etc.

Those are the conversations we will have. I appreciate having an opportunity.

[Mayor introduces the "rules" for the rest of the back-and-forth. I take the opportunity to get the hell out of there. As I leave, CM Thune says something about Cupcake. The crowd howls.]

[Young people getting their first political experience in the fight against unjust war parking meters.]